Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for some feedback on Water Soluble Oil Paint.  Have any of you switched from solvent dilutable oil paint to water miscible oil paint?  If you have switched, how do you like it, or their any problems?   How acceptable is water miscible oil paint?  

Thanks,

Leon

Hola Leon

I, too, am thinking of using water sol. oil paint.

So I sent the question to some of my artist friends.

One answered that Grumbacher Max was good and Van Gogh was Lousy.

Another friend (an excellent oil painter) replied//

(copied from my email)

About the oils. Unfortunately, in my opinion they are the worst of both worlds. They haven't enough body to act like oils; i.e., using a knife would be out of the question. Regular stiff oil brushes don't work well. Medium soft watercolor brushes worked best. Also, they don't act at all like watercolors (no staining). I have no idea how they hold up in light exposure.

I have done a couple of paintings using them. One I gave to my daughter, who placed it on top of her refrigerator to keep it out of harm's way until she could have it framed (under glass, of course). In the meantime her cat jumped on top of it with a little dry dirt on his feet. The footprints were very evident on the painting, and when I tried to clean them off, first with a dry cloth (no help) and then with a damp, soft cloth, the paint came off with the footprints! That was the end of the painting. It had been thoroughly dry for several months. I was disheartened and quickly lost interest.

The brand was -- Windsor & Newton "Artisan" --  I think the water based oils' best use is for practice -- color, tone, contrast, composition and perspective. The problem occurs when one wants to display or sell a painting.

Your fellow artists are right to be suspicious of the effects on their health from oil paints.  They contributed to my liver ailment. I know little about acrylics, but they might be worth looking into. Of course, acrylics are just another plastic, and with heat they outgas chemicals.

( end of copy )

Hope this helps

Frank

I have tryed them to here in Belgium, and i must say that i was very dissapointed. They don't react like the classic oils, they not working with you but against you.

I was searching also for something else, because of the smel from the dissolvents. And Acryl , also the fluid acryl for airbrush, i get an allergic reaction from! so i have to wear a gasmask. Thats not comftable to work with.

Hi Folks:

I've had very good luck with water soluable oils (WSO) and like them very much. 

In workshops oriented to learning by copying western master paintings in a museum setting, the colors of the originals matched quite well on my copies.  The instructor was a traditional oil painter and his advice on mixing colors did not have to be altered to get the desired results.  So I believe that colorwise WSOs aren't that different from regular oils.  Surely the different brands of regular oils vary from each other in similarly named colors in the same amount or more.    

I agree to watch out for rain when painting outside.  However, I have found that titanium white takes the longest time to dry as opposed to black.  Admittedly, I only use pure ivory black as an occasional accent, preferring to create larger "black" areas from thalo blue, thalo green and alizarin crimson.  I just scrubbed a 3-4 month old painting very hard with a wet paper towel and none of this "black" (or any other color) came off.  The painting had not yet been varnished.

Glazing; I have not been terribly and continually successful here, but feel that is due to me, and not WSOs.   Yes, using a WSO compatible linseed oil slows drying a lot.  More than with regular oils? I don't know.  I've tried the WSO-compatible quick-dry medium and glazed several layers of color.  The result is okay, but since I otherwise tend to use colors without medium, the mix of glossy areas (from the glazing) and dull areas (from the paints w/o medium) and the change in texture throws me off a bit when adding more layers of color.  I probably used too much quick-dry.  Also, there are many more WSO-compatible mediums being offered now and this may improve things.  I have used plain water to lay down layers of transparent colors, but this may actually be closer to making layers of micro dry-brush particles as opposed to more uniform layers of color in true glazes.  I got what I wanted though, so can't complain.

On a painting with approximately 3/16th of an inch thick paint, after 3 months it was not yet dry underneath.  But how long would it take for this to dry in regular oils?  Don't they recommend waiting at least a year before varnishing those?

I think we all get used to particular brands/types of colors, brushes and painting surfaces.  Change one aspect and it may feel very uncomfortable until you get used to it. (Thus my post looking for substitutes for Cirrus Kolinsky brushes.)  If we are satisfied with what we have now, we don't want to change unless there is good reason to.  Sensistivity to the solvents and cleanup may be that good reason for some.  And for others the sum total of differences between regular and WSOs may be too much to be worthwhile.

Regards,

Jim.

Phil, I'm glad you mentioned this major problem with water soluble oils. The fact that hog bristle can't be used with this medium alone would be a deal breaker for me. The use of water as a thinner with these paints creates enormous roadblocks to most traditional techniques. I would guess we may have seen WSO's expand as far as they're likely to go, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some brands discontinued. The only hope for long-term, broad use of these paints is in classroom situations where solvent-free painting solves a workplace safety requirement, but acrylics would likely be chosen over water-miscible oils even in that scenario.

I think the problem with the way in which water affects bristle brushes should also spark some scrutiny as to how the presence of water affects the eventual paint film. The manufacturers' claims of success only apply under their prescribed standards of application, but in the studio, on hand-primed canvases, with perhaps more water added than the medium can bear, may we be looking forward to compromised longevity in paintings done in WSO? What about the likelihood of fungus on a canvas dampened daily for 2 weeks of work?

I just returned from a fabulous workshop trip with Scott Burdick in Cinque Terre, Italy. (If you want, you can read all about it on my blog for September at: www.marianfortunati.com )

Because we were traveling, Scott wanted to try out water soluble oils. I had my doubts about them because of the things I read in the blog so I took my trusty oils and bought turpenoid when I arrived. (You can't take it on the plane.)

This was my second workshop with Scott and I was pleasantly surprised to see that the paint he used acted just like the oils back in the studio. He paints with very thick strokes but he was able to paint just like he always had. (He of course is a fabulous artist!!) It even rained several times during our outings and his paintings weren't affected any worse than mine or anyone else's. Several of the other workshop participants had taken his advice on the water soluble oils and seemed to like them fine.

Check out Scott's website to see some of his paintings from the trip. He should return home sometime soon.  http://www.burdicklyon.com/biography_scott_burdick.htm

I just received the painting I bought from the workshop I took with Scott Burdick.  It was a fabulous workshop.  Many wonderful things to learn and nice people to meet AND a gorgeous place to be (Cinque Terre, Italy).

As I mentioned in the last post, Scott used water soluble paints.  We painted in all conditions, wind, rain, and sunshine and he seemed to have no problems.

Because Scott is such a fabulous teacher and painter and also because one of the perks of the workshop is being able to buy some of his work... even paintings you watch being painted...   I now own two of Scott's paintings.  The first one was painted in traditional oil medium and was painted during his workshop two years ago.  My new one was painted using the water soluble oils.  I checked back in my notes and Scott used Holbein water soluble oils.  Especially when traveling all over  by plane, he thought they were a good choice.  The colors are vibrant, the oils look thick and creamy just like his other paintings when he used traditional oils.

I'm enclosing a photo of the painting I bought as well as a photo of the paints.