Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 03/13/2008 2:28 PM |
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| Okay, I've been trying and trying to do portraits, but for some reason they come out looking like glorified 'cartoons'! Ouch. I want to say what am I doing wrong but I think it would be interesting to find out ... What do you do to make it look like it has depth etc. To make faces look almost real but still a painting. I love what I see on this forum and I keep trying... but I am NOT getting anywhere. Love to hear how 'you do it'. |
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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LMB
Posts:445
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| 03/13/2008 10:55 PM |
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Hi Maggie,
You are a very good artist and may just be hard on your self. I remember that about four years ago I did a painting that I hated and I didn't look at it for six months. When I did run across this portrait one day I was surprised to see that it was not a bad painting. Would you post a portrait so that we could see what you might not be seeing?
Leon |
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Http://www.artabus.com/leonbayless/
http://www.catchlightartgallery.com/leonbayless.htm
quand le coeur est dans un bon endroit tout est possible
when the heart is in a good place all is possible |
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 03/14/2008 7:40 AM |
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Hi Leon - thanks for the words of encouragement. I am more comfortable doing figures than painting portraits. And because I am self-taugh, I have really tried to find lessons (private) painting portraits but unable to find any around here. Thus, this is what I need you all for. Feedback and occasional suggestions on what to look for or how to do, or accomplish what I have tried to set out to do.
Obviously, I did not want to post because I feel really out of my comfort zone but I guess that is what makes one stronger - right!  So.. here it is. This is the original photo I am working with along with the painting I am doing. Exposed! haha |
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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LMB
Posts:445
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| 03/14/2008 10:11 AM |
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Hi Maggie,
As I thought, your draftsmanship is very good. I have no trouble recognizing your subject in your painting. Two suggestions I will make. One, convert your photograph and painting to black and white in your Photoshop program and then compare the value differences between the two. Second, skin tones are always hard to judge (at least for me); I use a book by James Horton titled 'How to Paint Skin Tones' as a reference tool and then experiment from that.
Leon
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Http://www.artabus.com/leonbayless/
http://www.catchlightartgallery.com/leonbayless.htm
quand le coeur est dans un bon endroit tout est possible
when the heart is in a good place all is possible |
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 03/14/2008 10:18 AM |
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| Thanks Leon - will try your suggestions (re black and white and look up those skin tones) and let you know. I am calming down a bit... at times I get so worked up at what I 'don't know'. I don't want to 'give up' on this painting out of frustration, so this is a good thing... keep me going! Thanks |
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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art 81
Posts:87
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| 03/14/2008 10:36 AM |
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Hi Maggie
I just looked at your paintngs and if you use the skin tones you have in Nina 74 and Judys Angel 2007.
These are very good .
Charlie |
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Theriot
Posts:42
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| 03/14/2008 1:55 PM |
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Maggie,
I agree with Leon about getting down to the values of this portrait. I want to add that the reason that you feel it looks cartoonish may be because of the whites in the eyes and teeth. Your mind tells you that the whites of eyes are white and that white teeth are white but in a painting things are not as they seem. They look a little too white. Furthermore, when you look at the values in black and white you will find a wider range of values. For example...the ridge of the nose is nowhere near value of the side of her cheek. You CAN DO THIS. Show shadow and the light will be there. And that goes for her hair too. Now go and good luck.
Robert Theriot |
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Live your dreams |
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billmahler
Posts:166
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| 03/15/2008 6:19 AM |
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Maggie
In addition to all of the above good suggestions- here's a trick I use-
Put both objects upside down and look at them as abstractions. I's amazing what little flaws you can pick up that way.
Then - check your angles on your pictures
Make a copy of both - then draw as line from the center of the top of her head to the center of her chin on both.
You'll note that the original has slightly more tilt.
Check the tilt of her shoulders in both. In the original her right shoulder is almost at line of her chin, and in the painting it's below it.
Those things come with practice, but putting them upside down makes it easier.
I try to do a couple of sketches first to work out those issues before I paint
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..send ye not therefore to know for whom the bell tolls- it tolls for thee. John Donne
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Peggy
Posts:111
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| 03/15/2008 8:24 AM |
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Hi Maggie,
YOu've got a really good start here. I agree with what the others have said, just thought I'd add my 2 cents. Remember that light receeds, in other words things get darker as they move away from you, like on the sides of her face, as it moves back towards and under her hair the form shading will darken. Also remember that eyes are round balls in sockets, you have to do the form shading to make them look round and also add the shadow being cast by the upper portion of the eye and the lashes. Notice too that the area under her chin is much darker than elsewhere. You have good darks in the hair now just bring out the lights. Well gotta run. Hope this helps.
Peggy |
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For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for a hope and a future to bring you to an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11 |
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River
Posts:360
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| 03/15/2008 11:06 PM |
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Yes...Maggie...deeper tones around mouth edges...under chin etc. Don't be afraid of lights on hair as well...."paint what you SEE..." Use several brushes at once? For lighter and darker tones so that you keep putting on what you see...
Grayer backround to contrast better??? Good so far!!
River/michele |
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 03/18/2008 7:36 AM |
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| Thanks Bill, Art, Peggy, Theriot and River... as you can see, it does look alot better and I'm getting used to painting from a black and white photo. As suggested, I brought in more shadows and worked on the eyes a bit. Thanks for the 'eyeball' comment... it did help in doing the eyes. Got rid of the 'white' teeth also. I also painted for a while with the painting upside down. I was wondering about the background... how do you decide on how dark or light to do this? I know I still have alot to do.. but wanted you all to know your tips and tricks have helped alot! Keep the comments coming.. I'm actually having fun incorporating all the comments into my painting. |
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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mikec@pols
Posts:761
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| 03/18/2008 6:46 PM |
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Looks great, Maggie!
Very well done...
Mike |
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"You either grow or regress...nothing stays the same...." (unknown)
"A man may fall several times in life, but he is not a failure until he says that he was pushed..."
www.portraitsoflifestudio.com |
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eyecandy
Posts:152
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| 03/18/2008 9:03 PM |
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Maggie,
For skin tones, you have two good choices:
1. you can mix your own and it isn't hard, just use yellow ochre, cadium red light, and a touch of any blue, like ultramarine or cobalt blue and add white to achieve the depth of color that you need. For darker skin tones I have even used alizerine crimson instead of cadmium red light.
2. you can go on line and find out who sells "Pro Mix". John Howard Sanden has Weber in Philadelphia make it for him. It is great if only to get started on painting portraits. Once you see the colors that the professionals use, you'll be able to figure out how to mix your own. It is worth the cost to learn from it.
As to your portrait, the second attempt is much better. Her face is not so tapered as you made it and I would soften ( a lot) the wrinkles that you created. Here photo doesn't have such sharp folds. It is much softer. Her mouth is wider from right to left and her high cheeks are not so sharply delineated. I hope this helps you. Doing portraits is fun and it is a great challange to get an attractive real likeness. Don't dispair. Keep working on it and make lots of pencil drawings of photos and people every chance you get and you will see how it gets easier. |
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Phil Sydell
Boynton Beach, Fl
phil-4a@comcast.net or phil4a@msn.com |
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 03/25/2008 7:39 AM |
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I know you must be sick of this portrait by now but I am so excited as to how it came out. I did everything you guys suggested and, to think, I wanted to quit after the first draft painting! I am now finished... I had to fix about 10 different things 'after' I thought I was finished but it really made a difference. I cannot thank you all enough.
I just might like portrait painting after all...
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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Peggy
Posts:111
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| 03/26/2008 8:05 AM |
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WOW! What a difference. You did a great job of bringing this out from your first post. Glad you didn't give up.
Peggy |
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For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for a hope and a future to bring you to an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11 |
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Maggie429
Posts:244
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| 04/14/2008 3:22 PM |
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| Yes ... I'm back. Okay, I need help again! Yes... it's that portrait again and I thought doing portraits might be something I would like to do.... well - animals are looking really good right now. haha. I know you probably have seen this too many times but the comment was, the mouth is not quite right. I cannot see it. I have measured, I have redone 3 times, maybe it is shadowing, maybe it is something else not quite right which makes the mouth off.... help. Thanks for any input and your patience. |
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Mgi
www.hoviscreations.com |
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art 81
Posts:87
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| 04/14/2008 4:15 PM |
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Maggie
If you draw a line down from the center of her pupils you will see where her mouth should end. I hope this helps
Charlie |
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art 81
Posts:87
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| 04/14/2008 4:31 PM |
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Hope it helps
Charlie |
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Dink
Posts:2
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| 04/15/2008 6:19 PM |
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| hi maggie429 new to this form but have got a lot of information. I would you get a copy of portriats for life in 29 steps by John Howard Sanden. It's a great book on portraiture painting. I have learn so much from this book. North Light Books has the book you will get so much good information. Well keep on keeping on. |
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